This is an extension to the previous post which can be read here where I have been accused, labeled, criticized and so on, for apparently speaking on behalf of the shaykh when I have no right to do so, which I never intended to do or did!
Now what I want to do is let the Shaykh speak for himself – so to speak. In the last post I quoted partially the statement made by Syyidi Abdul Azeez ad Dabbagh on this issue. Now I will present the complete quote from Al ibriz from page 741 to 742.
Keep in mind who he is:
1) A Syyid – descendant of the Prophet (sallahu’alihi’wa’salam)
2) An Ummi (unlettered) saint
3) The Ghous of the time.
4) In the constant presence of the prophet (sallahu’alihi’wa’salam) in the way the companions of the prophet (sallahu’alihi’wa’salam) were – seeing him as they did. NOT in kashf.
5) endowed with numerous miracles the greatest of which was being steadfast on the sunnah!
6) A person of Illumination (Fath al Kabir) – the great opening
Now please read the following and come to your own understanding or conclusions on the origins of the hadra:
Page 741 – 742
On the subject of the ecstatic dance.
Al Dabbagh states that it didn’t exist during the first three generations of Islam. And this accords with what the religious scholars have affirmed. Al Dabbagh then notes that in the fourth generation four or five friends of God who were endowed with illumination and had disciples and followers were in fact the origin of the ecstatic dance. They observed how the angels worship God and are engaged in recollection. Al dabbagh explains: “there are some angels …who recollect God with their tongue and their whole body. You see their body swaying to the right and to the left, and swaying forward and backward.’ These few friends, while absent in beholding God unconsciously imitated the angels. But this was a sign of their weakness, and their followers adorned themselves in this ‘external attire’. When this first small group of friends of God passed away, ‘the people of external attire’ then occupied themselves with the ecstatic dance. Indeed, they increased its movement and added musical instruments”.
The funny thing is, when I simply tried to lay the facts in front of people. I was accused of speaking for the blessed shaykh by a select number of people, which baffles me as to how they came to this assumption. When I have not once mentioned “THIS IS WHAT THE SHAYKH REALLY SAID”. The irony and the funny thing here is, these select number of people then seem to know what the blessed shaykh meant and seem to be putting words into his mouth as to say this is what he was REALLY saying. When they have no right to do so!
Consult Al Ibriz for more in-depth analysis of the origins of this ‘practice’.
Please Note: We are not discussing whether I am against hadra or not, nor if the Mawlid is allowed or not. These are separate topics altogether, which I do not want to get into.
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12 replies on “Re: The Origins of the Hadra”
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i am assuming that sidi gibril’s response to the previous post was based on the partial quote of Sidi Abdul Azeez Dabbagh? and not the complete one
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Unfortunately yes, neither did the objectors of truth bother to look up the actual statement made by him. Nor did the ‘scholars’ who wrote responses to a partially presented statement.
Arrows upon arrows of accusations were thrown at this blog of
1)the incompetence and unreliability of the original post.
2)The need to negate what was mentioned originally.
Declaring that they were the absolute truth. That they (these select number of people) were the ones who knew exactly what Syyiduna Abdul Azeez Dabbagh meant. Without even knowing the FULL statement to what he said.
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Sorry it is because I wrote ‘comments’ instead of ‘posts’. This was an honest mistake on my part, I just used the wrong word. I meant I do not know if all the articles here are written by one person, or if it is a shared blog where lots of people write articles. I was just trying to apologise for not knowing your name.
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Apology accepted. As a result I have removed my last post Khalid.
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Brothers, why debate the issue of Hadra, it isn’t found anywhere in Quran and Sunnah. All the proofs I’ve heard when attending various Hadrah is in praise of Thikr and especially the virtues of remembering Allah in a group. The proofs for that specific methodology of Thikr as originating with the Prophet is non-existent.
To me the matter is simple. Whoever is comfortable with making the Hadrah Thikr, good for him. Whoever isn’t, he has simply abstained from a form of Thikr that is either Fard nor Sunnah. Each person will be held accountable for their own actions and what they admit in their belief system.
The problem with many of the mureeds is that they have given up their ability to think in favor of blindly following their Shaykhs and obeying them despite that the world of Ahlu Sunnah don’t believe that the leaders are Ma’soom. It really is a contradiction in terms.
I’m not in a position to condemn anyone, I’m just speaking from my extensive experience.
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Imâm Ahmad ibn Hanbal (ra) narrates the following two narrations:
Anas ibn Mâlik (radiyallâhu `anhu) said that the Abyssinians (Habashîs) danced in front of the Messenger of Allâh (sallallâhu `alayhi wa sallam); dancing (yarquSûn/raqS) while saying “Muhammadis a Righteous Servant (Muhammadun `Abdun Sâlih)” (in their dialect/language). Allâh’s Messenger (sallallâhu `alayhi wa sallam) asked, “What are they saying?” And they responded, “Muhammadun ‘Abdun Sâlih!”.
[Ahmad ibn Hanbal, al-Musnad (Beirut: Dâr Sâdir), 3:152, #12564]
This has been narrated with a chain of transmission all of whose narrators are those of Bukhari except Hammad ibn Salama, who is one of the narrators of Muslim.
Related to this, Imâm Ahmad ibn Hanbal also reports the following in his Musnad:
“Aisha stated that Allâh’s Messenger (صلى الله عليه وسلم) put her cheek on his shoulder while looking at the Abyssinians (Habashîs) dance.”
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Imam Ahmad bin Hanbal (ra) himself said about the Sûfîs:
“I don’t know people better than them.” Someone said to him: “They listen to music and they reach states of ecstasy.” He said: “Do you prevent them from enjoying an hour with Allâh?” (Muhammad ibn Ahmad as-Saffarînî al-Hanbalî (died 1188) who related in his Ghidha’ al-albab li-sharh manzumat al-adab from Ibrahim ibn `Abd Allah al-Qalanasi) (Cairo: Matba`at al-Najah, 1324/1906)
In some Hadîths the word used is yazfinûn. But this word itself means yarquSûn (they dance) according to the classical authorities of Islam:
Qâdî `Iyâd, Sharh Sahîh Muslim, Kitâb Salâtul-`Îdayn 3:310 (yazfinûna ma`nâhû yarquSûn waz-zifunu ar-raquS); an-Nawawî, Sharh Sahîh Muslim, Kitâb Salâtul-`Îdayn, 6:186 (yazfinûna hâdhâ kâna yazfinûn fî yawmil-`îd ma`nâhû yarquSûn); `Asqalânî, Fathul-bârî, 2:444 (yazfinûn ay yarquSûn).
Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Hajar al-Haytamî mentions that some scholars have seen in this evidence for the permissibility of dancing (ar-raqs) upon hearing a recital (samâ`) that lifts the spirit.(al-Haytamî, Fatâwâ hadithiyya p. 212). al-Yâfi`î concurs with him in Mir’ât al-jinân.(al-Yâfi`î, Mir’ât al-jinân, 4:154)
Both of them mention al-`Izz ibn `Abdus-Salâm as the chief example of such scholars, since it is authentically reported that he himself ‘attended the samâ` and danced in states of ecstasy’ (kâna yahduru al-samâ` wa yarqusu wa yatawâjadu), as stated by Ibn al-`Imâd on the authority of al-Dhahabî, Ibn Shâkir al- Kutabî, al-Yâfi`î, an-Nabahânî, and Abû al- Sa`âdat. (Ibn al-`Imâd, Shadharat al-dhahab 5:302; Ibn Shâkir al-Kutabî, Fawat al-wafâyat, 1:595; al-Yâfi`î, Mir’ât al-jinân, 4:154; an-Nabahânî, Jâmi` karamât al-awliyâ, 2:71; Abû al-Sa`âdat, Tâj al-ma`ârif, p. 250)
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I would like to know Mr Blogger why you have acerbically criticized Khalid yet have removed his post. You are criticizing him for trying to persuade others, yet hideously do the same in a most dastardly manner.
It’s good you point out that scholars/saints are fallible. How do you know someone is present by the Prophet peace be on him? How can you know someone is a ghous?
Your last sentence is a reflection of your own spiritual decrepitude.
May Allah make Khalid bigger than the saint you mention.
Imran
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your responce is, to be frank is silly and extremely childish! If you read the line of conversation you will see it is clear why the comments were deleted. It is becuase the brother himself told me to delete his comments and responces.
secondly, the brother made comments based on half the quote i quoted of Syyiduna Abdul Azeez Dabbagh. – He is a very high ranking saint who is well known across the length and breath of the muslim world. It amazes me that you do not know who this great individual person is. He is one of the masters of the path of tasswuff. It simply shows your level of knowledge in respect to the science of purification. My advice to you is check your facts and knowledge before you talk about great individuals within the muslim world. Your last comments “may allah make khalid bigger than the saint you mention” only serves to solidify your ignorance in this field of knowledge and science.
Thirdly read the complete quote which is posted thereafter on this issue from the great shaykh and it will broaden your horizon a little more from that of a narrow minded world view.
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